Unchained

More news wrt “The man Christ Jesus” Dr Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda: Pastor Gene Cook of Unchained Radio/The Narrow Mind Webcast hosted “Bishop of Bishops” Carlos Cestero (apparently Miranda’s chief apologist/spokesman), to discuss his movement in the light of scripture. The audio (60 min/15meg mp3) is available from the Unchained Radio podcast site. Eventually (next year?) I think the mp3 will roll off the free podcast page, but it should still be available from Unchained Radio for 98 cents.

Some thoughts:

  • In contrast to a theonomic response (execute him), I believe that this public exchange admirably exemplifies a truly biblical response to dangerous heresy. Gene Cook is an amazingly patient and charitable debater. I’m sure that I could not have kept my cool as well as he did in the presence of such abominable and blatantly heretical misinterpretations of scripture! (Nor could I have been so ready with scriptural counterexamples)
  • One significant hint that shows how whacked Miranda et al are, is that they restrict the set of applicable scripture to Paul; thus when John says “If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us,” he is only talking to the Jews. And the words of Jesus himself are discounted, because the Gospels are books of history, not of doctrine.
  • Gene Cook’s final take in the “Bishop of Bishops” interview is intriguing and scary:

I believe that this movement is going to be very successful. You wanna know why? Exactly what Carlos stated: The Church, for years, has been teaching false doctrine. The Church doesn’t understand the differences between justification and sanctification. You’ve got most modern Evanjellyfish, as we call them, most modern Evangelical churches out there that are confusing the categories of justification and sanctification — the Roman Catholics do the same thing. So guess what, when somebody can come by, and explain justification, they automatically have an audience.

  • After that final statement, Cook goes on to explain that the Evanjellyfish problem is bringing Justification under the category of Sanctification (Salvation by Works), and this movement jumps to the opposite extreme, bringing Sanctification under the category of Justification (Easy Believism).

It so happens that the reason I started poking around Unchained Radio is that Gene Cook will be participating in an upcoming informal debate I am organizing, on the topic of Theonomy. As a matter of fact, he is the chosen opponent of my Theonomic buddy Jeff Kazules. I can’t wait!

Note that Gene Cook was also moderator of this debate, and Paul Manata and shadowboxing atheist Derek Sansone both show up in various archived programs.  I encourage you to wander through the Unchained Radio podcast and listen to other free programs that tickle your fancy. I also encourage you to register (free) at Unchained Radio, and wander through the Radio Archives, and maybe buy a few 98-cent shows, or shell out $10 or $20 for a year’s membership (which I assume allows you unlimited downloads). I already mentioned appearances by Paul Manata and Derek Sansone, but also my pastor (Brian Tallman) is a guest of three shows, John Frame was a guest just last week (“Redemptive Historical Preaching”, podcast here), Pastor Paul Viggiano was a guest in a program discussing the Law of God (podcast here, but time runs out before they can start talking about Theonomy!), Roger Wagner is on three programs — the list just keeps going!

    Advertisements

    17 Responses

    1. What was I thinking! Aahh! I must be a glutton for punishment. ;)

      I told Gene that the only thing I have going for me in a debate with him is the truth. he he

      Anyway, Pastor Cook has a lot to offer the reformed world here in San Diego and abroad, so please take a look at his site.

      Blessings to all,

      Jeff

    2. For my part, I can say that I am looking forward to a new set of arguments to beat you on the head with — my old ones were getting worn out!

      Another podcast I just listened to (and enjoyed very much) is this interview with Kim Riddlebarger about his book A Case for Amillenialism (Riddleblog, Amazon). Jeff, you in particular might be interested in checking this out, because at one point Cook criticizes the hermeneutic if Bahnsen’s tape series “Why am I a Postmillenialist?” (with which you are no doubt familiar)

    3. I will definitely have to give it a look. I’m very interested in listening on a debate wrt that subject. And yes, I am familiar with Bahnsen’s tape series.

      Did you say that Cook was criticizing Bahnsen’s hermeneutic?? I can’t believe that!!! Who would have the gall! I mean, he’s dead so he can’t defend himself. That’s just horrible! (tic)

      Regarding your arguments, I agree. They’re worn out. Arguments that are not sound almost never last very long! :) Ha Ha Ha :)

      Jeff

    4. We have some branches of this cult in South Texas. They call this freak, “Papi” and “Abba Padre”…pure heresy. Totally brainwashed freakburgers. Check this song out

    5. Watch that song I linked all the way to the end, where the girl says, “Jose Luis, you are God.”

    6. Crazy — and that song is toilet-worthy way before the end —  how about “allowing me to love myself”, or “Thank you for telling me I’m an angel”?

    7. Almost as bad as the heresy is the total theft of the mediocre, off-tune karaoke crooning that takes place in evangelical churches across America every Sunday. Horrible music and performance masquerading as talent….ugh…the heresy just allows us to dump the whole thing in the Lake of Fire (or Vegas)where it belongs.

    8. Next thing you know, this Miranda guy will steal our pot-luck dinner socials, our cheesy bouquet of flowers for the youngest and oldest mother on Mother’s Day, and our usher’s red sports coats too! Create your own religion, you heretical bastard!

    9. Hey, you stole my line!

      For a change of pace, check out this amazing modern hymn I discovered yesterday (this link has words and a link to .wma)

    10. See hilarious lampooning of prosperity dweebs

      And self-focused Christians
      http://www.sermonspice.com/videos/592/its-all-about-me/

    11. Referencing a mainstream chorus on this blog might be like introducing reggae music at a Nascar event, but I am really enjoying Chris Tomlin’s chorus, “How Great is Our God” lately. We sang it at Sam’s funeral back-to-back with “How Great Thou Art”, and it put our lives in the perspective of our Almighty Creator. If you ever want to take a break from your steady diet of organ music, check it out at:

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/clipserve/B0007X9UFG001004/0/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_004/102-6844625-8038507

      Here are the lyrics:

      The splendor of a King, clothed in majesty
      Let all the earth rejoice
      All the earth rejoice

      He wraps himself in Light,
      and darkness tries to hide
      And trembles at His voice
      Trembles at His voice

      How great is our God, sing with me
      How great is our God, and all will see
      How great, how great is our God

      Age to age He stands
      And time is in His hands
      Beginning and the end
      Beginning and the end

      The Godhead Three in One
      Father Spirit Son
      The Lion and the Lamb
      The Lion and the Lamb

      Name above all names
      Worthy of all praise
      My heart will sing
      How great is our God

      How great is our God, sing with me
      How great is our God, and all will see
      How great, how great is our God

    12. Probably not surprisingly, I’m not that impressed. How Deep the Father’s Love for Us (linked above) has it beat hands down for music (and I’m not even sure how well it would work with an organ) and I think pretty soundly in the department of theological depth as well. And if that song is not mainstream, well, then mainstream just needs to change to let it in.

    13. Just listened to the podcast of Gene and the Bishop. All I can say is, “Wow”! I agree with his sanctification and justification conclusion, but let’s not miss the big, “Jose Miranda de Jesus is Jesus Christ in the flesh” stuff, either! Hard to believe that this nutjob could get any traction, but when you have an entire country like Mexico worshiping the painting of the Virgin of Guadalupe, maybe a balding Puerto Rican is a little more appealing.

    14. Gene sounds like a guy I would enjoy hanging out with.

    15. I’m looking forward to getting to know him myself! And that was an interesting point he made about Miranda’s thinning hair, i.e. he’s getting old and he’s going to die. It didn’t seem clear to me whether the whackos actually definitively said that all Miranda meant by “I will not die, people could try to kill me, but I would not die”, was eternal resurrected life (which he obviously didn’t, if you listen to the quote). I wish Gene had pressed harder on the question “if Miranda dies, will you be willing to rethink your ‘theology'”?

    16. Check out others of Stuart Townend hymns. We sang one other one that night at your church and I’ve gotten the CD it was on. Rich, rich, rich stuff. We especially like (if we have to chose) the modern setting to Psalm 23. PS This is Aunt Barbara at grandpa’s house. He may despise choruses but he doesn’t know the new British hymnwriters, I don’t believe.

    17. […] Our good friend Jeff “Not-a-Sith” Kazules argued in the affirmative, and our new friend Gene “Unchained” Cook in the negative. Both speakers represented their positions well, and everybody enjoyed the debate. You will enjoy it too, if you download it right now! The debate proper (65 minutes) and the Q&A (90 minutes) can be downloaded for free from UnchainedRadio.com (for now, and for a small fee after it expires from the podcast). […]

    Leave a Reply

    Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

    WordPress.com Logo

    You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

    Twitter picture

    You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

    Facebook photo

    You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

    Google+ photo

    You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

    Connecting to %s

    %d bloggers like this: