Sabbath and Industry

Near the end of the debate (starting at 1:01:27 in the .mp3) I presented a very abbreviated version of an argument that Sabbatarianism is not consistent with use of electricity on the Sabbath.  To quote prominent Sabbatarian Joseph Pipa,

It is a lame excuse to say ‘They are going to be there anyway, so it really doesn’t matter what I do.’…If you use a person’s services, you are partly responsible for that person’s working on the Lord’s Day.

Or even quoting Kazooless (18:49):

Every time we pay for a service, there is a servant filling that need.  … You might argue that “they are going to do it anyway” but I say to you that even if that were true, we should not participate in their sin. Just as it is morally wrong to purchase a stolen item when you know that it is stolen, paying someone else to break the Sabbath for you is equally wrong.

So if Kazooless considers this standard worthy of condemning restauranters with, he should not shy away when it is applied to himself.  Electricity is a purchased product, and even if one can mount a convincing argument that public utilities are works of mercy towards persons in dire need, still that doesn’t give the Sabbatarian license to purchase and consume unnecessary electricity on the Sabbath.  The simple fact that people survive camping trips is proof that, with enough preparation, a family can live without electricity for a day.

A similar example, which I had less time to discuss in the debate, is the steel industry.  Apparently, a steel factory cannot start up and shut down within six days, so shutting down the factory for the Sabbath means shutting down the factory altogether.  Therefore, if you buy anything from a car to a can opener, you are “partly reponsible for [steelworkers’] working on the Lord’s Day.”  Pipa recognizes this dilemma, and tries to dodge it:

When by nature an activity cannot be ceased without affecting the work and livelihood of the other six days, it may continue.  I derive this principle from the life of a crew on a ship at sea.  Both Solomon and Jehoshaphat had fleets of ships (2 Chron 8:17-18; 20:35-36).  A ship at sea could not lie idle on the Sabbath.  A number of necessary duties had to be done even on the Sabbath for the well-being of the crew: sails had to be trimmed, the course charted, general maintenance carried out and the physical needs of the crew met.

To quote Pipa again, “lame”! Pipa must have been sweating bullets when he wrote this, hoping and praying that nobody would actually read his scripture proofs!  We read in 2 Chron 8:17-18 about a fleet owned not by Solomon, but by Hiram, and piloted by Hiram’s sailors; Solomon’s servants were merely on a ride-along to chaperon a shipment of gold.  There’s no reason they couldn’t have rested on the Sabbath (and every other day) and let the real sailors do the work. 2 Chron 20:35-36, on the other hand, describes a joint shipbuilding effort between Jehoshaphat and Ahaziah, and denounces it as “acting wickedly” — hardly a normative passage of scripture (would Pipa have us also “join with Ahaziah king of Israel, who acted wickedly”?)  Finally, if sailing really requires constant work, so what?  If strict Sabbatarianism is true, then God has given a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all sailors in all ages to stay close enough to shore to be able to anchor for a Sabbath rest.

Likewise, strict Sabbatarianism and a steel industry are mutually exclusive. On this principle, strict sabbatarians should boycott all products containing steel from factories that force their employees to work on the Sabbath (i.e. all steel). If they want steel, they could found “Sabbatical Steel, Inc”, where the workers spend Mon-Wed firing up the plant, Thu-Sat shutting it down, and make a little steel on the Wednesday swing shift. If God truly blesses those who honor the Sabbath, surely he will reward such a leap of faith by miraculously raising up customers for their premium-priced steel!

On a more sober note, my broader point is that while Sabbatarians do a pretty good job refraining from direct, in-person transactions like buying gas or groceries (or obviously restaurants), our modern culture includes many more goods & services that are delivered & distributed remotely, seemingly invisibly.  It is this sector of the economy that Sabbatarians are inconsistently blind to.  There are probably plenty of Sabbatarians who forbid TV on the Sabbath — but more because of “your own recreations” than out of recognition that people have to work to run the TV station. On the same principle, how many remember not to listen to the radio in the car on the way to church, not to mention abstain from using phone, internet, water, sewer, etc.? In order for a strict Sabbatarian to consistently live out his principles he would need to live completely off the grid — at least one day a week, because strict Sabbatarianism and modern industry are mutually exclusive.

So there’s my side of the story.  Due to lack of relevant questions, Kazooless did not get a chance in the debate to defend himself against my razor-sharp arguments.  So K., I hereby invite you to post your counterpoint on your blog, whenver you get the time.

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24 Responses

  1. I told Reuben that his arguments that he has detailed for us here are very similar to arguments that Gary North wrote years ago. What is this with Rube relying on those that are usually my friends except for when it comes to this subject matter? First John Frame, and now Gary North! Wow. Anyway, I read a response to North when I was dealing with these issues that satisfied me then, and still does. It took me quite a while to find it, but I finally did. Instead of reinventing the wheel, I’m going to post the link and give you a few quotes. I’ll also post another comment after this one with a couple more of my thoughts.

    http://www.reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/sabbathciv.htm

    Some choice quotes that I think are relevant:

    Regarding Steel:

    One example is the steel industry. If the smelter in a foundry takes several days to reach its proper temperature, then it cannot be shut down every Lord’s day without shutting down the whole steel industry. Thus, at least a minimal crew is needed to keep the operation running through Sunday. But the benefits of steel for mankind (e.g., safer cars and buildings, the need for steel for the military) render it a necessity (wooden sailing ships would not have fared well against Japanese destroyers in the battles of the Pacific). Another example would be certain types of shipping. An oil tanker could not reach Japan from a port in Alaska in less than a week and thus would be in transit on the Sabbath (the shipping of oil is a necessity, since energy is needed for large populations to heat buildings, and for generating electricity). God does not require people to deforest the countryside or freeze to death in order to keep the Sabbath.

    Regarding electricity:

    North’s (RubeRad’s) analogy is clever but does not hold up under close scrutiny. He fails to consider the major differences between a decentralized form of energy consumption (for heat or light) and a centralized form…

    A centralized power source would actually enable a Christian society to keep God’s sabbath better. The Hebrews were permitted to burn fires in their dwellings on the Sabbath, as long as they did not use the fire for business purposes. The burning of a fire requires a certain amount of attention (i.e., work). Furthermore, a certain amount of smoke irritates the eyes and lungs. Although a central power system requires a crew to man it on the Sabbath, it enables millions of people to rest and worship God in a healthy, clean environment. In a Christian culture, those who work at the power plant would be rotated so that working on the Lord’s day would be rare among power plant workers. There likely will come a time in the future when technology will enable power plants to run automatically with a skeleton crew for observation and security purposes. The keeping of the Sabbath is indeed compatible with modern industrial culture. God does not require Christians to return to the stone age every Lord’s day.

    kazoo

  2. Rube’s issue with the Reformed view of the Sabbath stated here is one of extreme ridicule. The idea is that the Sabbath indeed was made FOR man, and not the reverse, so if your understanding of the position leads you to an extreme view where man now needs to serve the Sabbath, you’ve taken a wrong turn somewhere and misunderstood the position.

    That also goes for the legalistic observances of the Christian Sabbath as well. But that’s the case with any of God’s laws, isn’t it? No one is justified by the works of the law (Gal 2:16>, so keeping the Sabbath to get right before God, or to try and stay right before God, is never correct. And neither is just abstaining from things we ought not to do, without doing the things we ought to do.

    Outward, legalistic observance of the Sabbath is not what the Christian Sabbath is about, and if that is the message that one gets when listening to my presentation at Hoagies and Stogies, then I did a substandard job. I tried to convey that when I first was introduced to this great historic doctrine, I misunderstood it and misapplied it. I didn’t get it. It wasn’t until we started observing the Day inwardly with the heart that the Day and its meaning came alive to us. The should’s and should not’s became secondary and made sense. If you’re stuck on the law aspect, then you’re not paying attention to the real matter at hand. Blue laws, roped off sections at the grocery store, etc., are all distractions. Here is the real matter at hand: How do you spend your time on the Lord’s Day?

    kazoo

  3. This response merely boils down to, “if you can add up enough peoples’ convenience, it becomes OK to violate the Sabbath”. Where does the centralized/decentralized distinction arise from scripture? Who says it is permissible for people to live in places or ways that require them to break God’s law? How do we know God didn’t intend for mankind to stay warm with fossil fuels until renewable energy sources like solar, wind, wave, geothermal, … became available? Where’s the biblical imperative to sail more than 3 days from land?

    What would Moses say if somebody suggested, “hey, I know we’re not supposed to work on the Sabbath, but I’ve got this great idea about how a few of us could take turns working on the Sabbath, and there could be more Sabbath rest to go around for everybody!” I wonder who would put their life on the line and volunteer to take the first shift?

    Was Pipa right or wrong when he insisted that (paraphrase) it is not cool to violate the Sabbath in the interest of upholding the Sabbath? How much good does it take to justify how “small” a sin?

    Also, even if electric workers are needed to keep the traffic lights working, how does that enable you to contribute to their workload? That time in the future when technology will enable power plants to run automatically might come quicker if enough Sabbatarians got together and eliminated demand, so that only truly necessary electricity needed to be generated.

    Sorry, but your case differs from “one chef works so that two customers can rest” only by degree.

  4. New day, so new comment, right? :)

    Read your first paragraph in your 10:04 comment. Notice how many time you mention “people.” That’s the key word. The Sabbath was made for “peoples.”

    Not to be pedantic here, but I want to point out that I think you’re guilty of begging the question. You’re trying to prove that these things are sinful (in the strict view), but instead you are just assuming it. Yet, I’ve given you arguments (other people’s) to explain and prove why these things do not follow logically, and instead are under the works of necessity and mercy.

    One or two family’s can go camping without electricity, but millions cannot. Electricity is a necessity today. If society had more of a heart toward God, would things be a little different on Sunday? Sure! But then that’s also why I’m postmil. ;)

    kazoo (gotta go to work now)

    • You’re trying to prove that these things are sinful (in the strict view), but instead you are just assuming it

      I’m just applying the principles you are trying to apply to me, where you are unwilling to.

      I’ve given you arguments (other people’s) to explain and prove why these things do not follow logically

      I didn’t see any logic, only assertions that Sabbath convenience for the many justifies necessary labor for the few.

      One or two families can go camping without electricity, but millions cannot. Electricity is a necessity today.

      Nobody said they had to go out to a campground. If power to your house shut off every Sunday, you would get along just fine.

      If society had more of a heart toward God, would things be a little different on Sunday? Sure!

      But in the meantime, since there are enough other Sabbath-breakers around, it doesn’t matter whether you take the Sabbath seriously yourself?

  5. For what it’s worth, my concern is much less what pagans should do on Sundays and much more what Christians should do.

    The pejorative “sabbatarianism” should be used very carefully by confessional Reformed folk or not at all. As I tried to show in RRC, when Calvin assaults the “sabbatarians” he wasn’t talking about the Sunday sabbath. There’s very little actual difference between the European and British writers on the sabbath.

    The question in a post-Christendom world is how Christians should conduct themselves on the Lord’s Day. I say they should recognize the creational and redemptive 1 in 7 pattern and devote the Lord’s Day to rest and worship.

    To deny the 1 in 7 pattern is to verge on gnosticism, to deny the creational order, to refuse to recognize the shift to Sunday (via the resurrection) is to deny the progress of redemption.

    The Synod of Dort got it right in their points on the Sabbath.

    We don’t live in Christendom now and we’re not going to and we shouldn’t be hankering after it. I think there’s a creational argument for 1 day in 7 I can’t make a creational argument for Sunday, but Christians have always set aside Sunday as much as their employers would let them (e.g. in the early church) and then openly after Constantine made it a public holiday.

    If Caesar revokes his decree to make Sunday a holiday that doesn’t mean that Christians have no creational and redemptive obligation to one day a week as a day or rest and worship.

    Nor does it mean that we have no obligation not to enslave others on Sunday. What a perverse testimony it is for those who’ve been freed by Christ to go and enslave others! As a former pagan enslaved by “free” Christians, I can speak on their behalf: “Let my (former) people go!”

    If the pagans want to work 7 days a week, that’s their business.

    • The pejorative “sabbatarianism” should be used very carefully by confessional Reformed folk or not at all

      I’m only using the label the strict crowd claims for themselves nowadays.

      to refuse to recognize the shift to Sunday (via the resurrection) is to deny the progress of redemption

      To refuse to recognize that the Sabbath has outwardly contracted (to between the call to worship and the benediction), and spiritually expanded (to all seven days) is to deny the progress of redemption. Go to church, rest in Christ.

      What a perverse testimony it is for those who’ve been freed by Christ to go and enslave others!

      That assumes that the Sabbath is still about earthly labor.

  6. We need to make a few distinctions here. (We know how important distinctions are, right Rube? ;b) There is a difference between *purchasing* products/services on the Sabbath vs. *utilizing* products on the Sabbath that were purchased on a lawful day. Purchasing electricity once a month and using it on the Lord’s Day forces no one to violate the Sabbath. Any attention that needs to be given to power plants (or steel mills in the other example) on the Sabbath can fall under emergency services, which falls under necessity and mercy. If these companies are violating the Sabbath by attempting to make a profit on that day, rather than simply keeping their property and people safe, then that is their sin. Purchasing their products does not force them to do this sin. If it were up to me, I would tell them to observe the Sabbath, paying attention, of course, to all the necessary safety precautions. But herein lies another distinction. You cannot tell that to your waitress. You cannot tell her to keep the Sabbath because patronizing the restaurant where she serves on the Sabbath *requires* her Sabbath violation.

    • Ron, you’re as full of holes as Genevan cheese (if only your theology of covenant and justification were as Genevan!)

      *purchasing* products/services on the Sabbath vs. *utilizing* products on the Sabbath that were purchased on a lawful day

      I was responding to Pipa, who says “use a person’s services” which is what you do when you utilize electricity on the Lord’s Day.

      Purchasing electricity once a month and using it on the Lord’s Day

      So the fact that you don’t pay for electricity on Sunday, but at the end of the month makes it OK? So I can pay at a restaurant with a credit card, right?

      If you are correct, then in Israel, you should be able to pay monthly to have firewood delivered daily, including the Sabbath. The equity of using firewood or manna obtained on a lawful day, would be to store electricity in batteries during the week to use on the Sabbath, or power your house with a generator on Sunday, using propane or gasoline you stocked up during the week. It seems to me that would be completely consistent with a strict Sabbatarian position.

      emergency services, which falls under necessity and mercy

      How does steel production = necessity and mercy? And I repeat, even if there are some necessary and merciful uses, how does your family’s convenience fit in that category?

      If these companies are violating the Sabbath by attempting to make a profit on that day

      When is a company not trying to make a profit? So electricity should be billed at cost on the Sabbath? And that cost should be really small, right, because the workers should not be profiting from the necessity for their merciful works?

      Purchasing their products does not force them to do this sin

      In other words, “They are going to be there anyway, so it really doesn’t matter what I do”.

      You cannot tell her to keep the Sabbath

      That begs the question of whether “keep the Sabbath” means “go to church, rest in Christ”, or “keep 24 hours holy”.

      • So the fact that you don’t pay for electricity on Sunday, but at the end of the month makes it OK?

        Yes, of course. I am using a product on Sunday that I purchased on another day. Similarly, I can buy a suit on Saturday and wear it to worship on Sunday without the fellow selling me the suit having to violate the Sabbath. He may have made the suit the previous Sabbath, thus violating that day, but my purchasing said suit on a lawful day does not employ him on the Sabbath. Not so with your waitress. You purchasing her service on the Sabbath necessarily employs her on the Sabbath.

        So I can pay at a restaurant with a credit card, right?

        Sure, you *can*, but not lawfully. Your actions employ a servant on the Sabbath.

        If you are correct, then in Israel, you should be able to pay monthly to have firewood delivered daily, including the Sabbath

        Again, that scenario would be one of employing a servant on the Sabbath. It doesn’t matter when you pay him if he is in your employ on the Sabbath. My flipping a light switch employs no one on the Sabbath. If there is a fellow at the power plant violating the Sabbath (and there is), I am no more culpable for enslaving him than I am the fellow who sold me a suit on Saturday that he made the previous Sunday. I am not employing him on the Sabbath. Not so with your waitress. You purchasing her service on the Sabbath necessarily employs her on the Sabbath.

        That begs the question of whether “keep the Sabbath” means “go to church, rest in Christ”, or “keep 24 hours holy”.

        Rube, I know you have a problem understanding what the Bible means when it uses the word “day” ;b. Ask your kids. They’ll tell you what “Remember the Sabbath *day*” means. It really isn’t that complicated.

  7. No props for the awesome smackdown of Pipa’s “fleets of ships” nonsense?

  8. How does steel production = necessity and mercy

    It doesn’t. But if there needs to be someone on call to make sure nothing blows up, damaging property or person, that is a work of necessity and mercy.

    Your objection is that this would reduce steel production. Of course it would. Keeping the Sabbath holy necessarily reduces production, no matter what the industry. If that reduction is substantially less than 1/7, so be it. Make more plants to meet the demand. The Sabbath need not be disregarded.

  9. I am using a product on Sunday that I purchased on another day. Similarly, I can buy a suit on Saturday and wear it to worship on Sunday

    But it’s not similar at all. Just because you pay for it on a different day, doesn’t mean you bought it on a different day. I grant you that buying a suit on Saturday and wearing it on Sunday is perfectly consistent within a Sabbatarian framework: the selling and the purchasing and the paying and the working and the delivery and the receipt all occurred on Saturday, and the use occurred on Sunday. But with electricity, you do not wake up Sunday morning, in possession of a day’s quantity of electricity that you bought on Saturday. The paying may be delayed, but the purchasing (incurring of debt), working, delivery, and receipt all happen only in real time. To put it another way, with the suit, the commercial transaction (work, purchase, payment, delivery, receipt) and the use are separated in time. With electricity, the commercial transaction is distributed only across space. And in which domain does the Sabbath consecration occur?

    So electricity is not similar to a suit. Unless it is stored in batteries, or obtained without labor (solar, wind, …) electricity is similar to a restaurant, and the difference between purchasing, receiving, and consuming from a restaurant staffed by laborers vs. an electric plant staffed by laborers, is merely one of degree.

    Another point is that of knowledge. If you don’t know that your tailor made your suit on Sunday, you may sleep easy. But if you see a tailor with a sign that says “open 8am-5pm, seven days a week” next to another with a sign that says “We go to church on Sunday so you can buy Christian suits the rest of the week!” wouldn’t you be conscience-bound to shop at the latter, even if he had to have higher prices to make up for forfeiting his highest-volume business day?

    simply keeping their property and people safe

    So why do Sabbatarians make such a big deal about not buying gas on the Sabbath? What does a gas station clerk do nowadays except guard the property (especially at Costco)? Or why not swoop through Albertson’s to buy a gallon of milk from a robot? It’s none of your business if others are sinfully enslaving sinfully working tellers — as far as you’re concerned, nobody needs to be working at the grocery store except a security guard. The reason is that buying gas or food are very obviously commercial transactions, while electricity, etc. are easier to turn a blind eye to.

    My flipping a light switch employs no one on the Sabbath. If there is a fellow at the power plant violating the Sabbath (and there is)

    Nonsense. If there is no fellow at the power plant, then nothing happens when you flip the switch. His work is necessary for your electricity.

    Your objection is that this would reduce steel production

    I have no objection. I am not arguing that “steel and electricity are axiomatically necessary, therefore sabbatarianism is wrong”. All I’m saying is that the Sabbatarian cannot just skate by with an unwarranted assertion that steel and electricity are immune from sabbatarian principles.

    Rube, I know you have a problem understanding what the Bible means when it uses the word “day”

    No problem here; I understand Rom 14:5 and Gal 4:10 plain as day!

    • Just because you pay for it on a different day, doesn’t mean you bought it on a different day.

      Not that it really matters, but nonsense. If I never pay for it, did I buy it? No. I just used it. I haven’t bought it until I have paid for it.

      But the point isn’t even the date of the “commercial transaction”. If I owe a fellow at church some money, I have no problem paying him during the fellowship time. The point is whether or not your actions employ someone (other than necessity/mercy workers) on the Sabbath, thereby preventing them from keeping the Sabbath.

    • So you changed your mind then, since “Yes, of course…” above, and you now agree with me that the date of payment is irrelevant, which is why when I eat at a restaurant, it doesn’t make a difference if I pay with cash or charge.

      What matters is when the work is done. So if you hire a high schooler to mow your lawn on Saturday, and pay him $20 at church, that’s totally different than if he mows the lawn on Sunday and you pay him at the end of the month. Likewise, the fact that you have electricity delivered to your home on Sunday, for use on Sunday, requires the utility plant to be staffed on Sunday (and the fact that you pay your electric bill at the end of the month is irrelevant).

      • Ron,

        Not to gang up on you, but I think I agree with Rube here on this point. Only the details that you’re dealing with him about. If a power plan ‘needlessly’ requires employees to staff it on Sunday to deliver electricity to its customers on Sunday, then that does hypothetically pose a problem with consistency for the Sabbatarian.

        The real argument here is if in a modern society electricity production is a work of necessity or not. Even if Rube were to win this argument , it would only show that we need to be more consistent with our doctrine. Rube still has a huge amount to deal with elsewhere (creation ordinance, moral command, historical reformed doctrine, blessing given to NC people, covenant sign for God’s people).

        kazoo

  10. What about the Sunday worship service itself? Lots of work goes into a church service, and not just by paid clergy. And you, again, bump into the use of electricity and plumbing.

  11. The paid clergy work we would consider covered by Matt 12:5. Other work, I guess you mean like somebody that fills the communion cups or plays an instrument or hands out bulletins? I’d say that’s consistent within the Sabbatarian framework as well, since it’s (a) being about the Lord’s business, and (b) not for pay.

    Electricity and plumbing is the same deal however. An institutional building like a church is actually a better candidate for, say propane power. Plus you can have lots of skylights (I don’t know why our church doesn’t have skylights, since the building is just a giant shoebox with a huge flat roof).

    • If a power plan ‘needlessly’ requires employees to staff it on Sunday to deliver electricity to its customers on Sunday, then that does hypothetically pose a problem with consistency for the Sabbatarian.

      Then we can’t buy anything and keeping the Sabbath requires that we go naked and hungry. There are many, many *products* produced on the Sabbath. When we purchase those *products* on lawful days, we are not purchasing the *service* of producing those products on the Sabbath. We are purchasing the *products* on a lawful day, as well as paying for the *service* of selling us those products on lawful days. Purchasing the *product* of electricity fits in neatly here.

    • So then purchase your electricity on a lawful day, and store it in batteries. Don’t purchase on the Sabbath the *service* of ensuring the existence of your purchased electricity.

  12. I am a retired lineman for a local power company. The church that I was a member of at the time holds a yearly conference. Joey Pipa was speaking on the Sabbath (this was after he wrote his book.) During the Q&A period our pastor asked the question that I knew was coming. He asked about someone like myself working on the Sabbath. Pipa classified maintaining and restoring power as an essential service and was not improper work on the Lord’s Day.

  13. Yes, I’ve read Pipa’s book, and he says as much in there. I just can’t figure out how he reconciles that view with the rest of his doctrine of the Lord’s Day. In particular, it’s one question if it is a work of necessity or mercy for a utility worker to provide electricity to the community (and if it is, a Christian should provide this necessary and merciful service for free). But my main point here is that even if it is a work of mercy or necessity, that is not a valid justification within the sabbatarian framework for a Christian to be purchasing electricity for unnecessary purposes on the Lord’s Day.

  14. Rube,

    Thank you brother!

    There are things that are essential services electrically like hospitals, water and lift stations not even thinking about things like national defense, hurricanes, floods (katrina), earthquakes and tornadoes (sorry, I’ve never heard 2kers consider this even though it is essential).

    I personally chose a more dangerous career to be able to have a regular worship schedule which meant that I would be there during my church’s worship service.

    There are essential services that have to be available

    How would you realistically seeing these being handled also considering the Pipa question that I proposed to you earlier

  15. Within Pipa’s Sabbatarian framework, I don’t see how these can be realistically handled. In God’s providence, all of those technological issues were not relevant to O.T. Israel. Just think about this from Moses’ eyes. When there was a death penalty for working on the Sabbath, would anybody consider running a hypothetical electric plant on the Sabbath to make Sabbath more restful for others? No way! In the extremely hypothetical scenario where (a) Israel had electricity and (b) Israel obeyed God’s law, the preeminence of the Sabbath would have dictated six days of electricity and one without, or maybe leave the plant running unattended on Friday night, and if the power goes out, oh well, we’ll get to it Saturday night.

    The real solution is to understand the radically different (more inward, less earthly) nature of the Sabbath in the new covenant. Once we get away from the “rigid observation peculiarly prescribed to the Jewish people,” questions such as these become non-issues.

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